Curse

Maldeus · May 07, 2012, 02:38 PM // 14:38

The project I've been working on as mentioned in my species' thread (thanks to everyone who's helped out there, by the way, I'm pretty sure my list is complete now) deals mostly with the region of Tyria immediately before and during Prophecies, and part of that means the actual Guild Wars show up a lot (remember those? The recent historical event which is totally insignificant during the time period the game actually takes place in, but which the game is inexplicably named after?). And I've been thinking about what campaigns the three nations might have fought over.

Some is easy pickings. Orr could fight a campaign on its own soil to expel foreign guilds once the battle lines get drawn. Orr and Kryta could also fight a fierce battle for the Bay of Sirens, fighting on the Tarnished Coast and the Shards of Orr. It's even easy to imagine that Lion's Arch would be besieged by Orrian forces, or that likewise Krytans might return to Orr in force and head back towards Arah. Maybe there was fighting over the Ring of Fire as the Krytans tried to carve out a naval base from which to disrupt an Orrian blockade on Canthan trade (though that raises all kinds of questions as to how, or even if, they missed the mursaat while they were in the area).

But...Ascalon is actually kind of very far away from everyone else. There's basically two land routes into Ascalon, the first goes from Scoundrel's Rise to the Diessa lowlands by way of Borlis Pass...A pass which the dwarves of Deldrimor, Ascalon's allies, have built the giant Frost Gate on top of (similarly, you could probably get to Wizard's Folly from the Shards of Orr...If you go straight through Thunderhead Keep). Did Deldrimor fight for Ascalon in the Guild Wars? How come this isn't mentioned before? In fact, why is there no mention of Deldrimor at all prior to 1072 AE? Were the dwarves a byproduct of the Guild Wars, and their prior history made up as part of some grand conspiracy?

The second route is through the Crystal Desert. Granted, the charr pass right through on their way to getting Cataclysm'd, so clearly it's possible to march across without getting completely murdered by the desert, and only the people who stick around trying to ascend get killed to pieces. But the land route from Orr to Ascalon cuts straight through the parts of the Crystal Desert we explore, not a single ghost mentions fighting Orr or Ascalon at all (nor do any of them wear the Orrian clothes we see on Khilbron and the Orrian undead).

Now, Ascalon is landlocked, but it is reasonably close to waterways that lead to the Bay at Marhan's Grotto and Amnoon Oasis, but these places are pretty small harbors and are still not actually in Ascalon, not really the kind of things that could be used sustain a full scale attack on anything.

Overall, I get the idea that the team who designed the plot and the team who designed the map didn't have a lot of communication with each other, but this is what we've got. So how did Ascalon fight these wars?

RedDog91 · May 07, 2012, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Well it apparently that hard for opposing armies to march towards Ascalon...
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_B...yhlo_(Day_One)
The link has a detailed battle and mentions that it is the third battle in the course of just 3 days.

Maldeus · May 07, 2012, 05:11 PM // 17:11

There being a guild called the Zealots of Shiverpeak does imply that the Shiverpeaks were occupied during the war, but didn't Deldrimor take issue with Ascalon and Kryta fighting a war on their territory?

Also, it's weird that the Zealots are Orrian. Orr has no land border with the Shiverpeaks. Clearly they'd pulled back from the Shards by the time of the Cataclysm, or else Orr would still exist. There'd be a government-in-exile in the Shards.

Konig Des Todes · May 07, 2012, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Zealots of Shiverpeaks' name was ripped off of the player guild, and probably is as nonsensical as it can get in lore - nonetheless it's canon lore, and they are an Orrian guild.

Though in full it's not canon, the first April Fools quest from last year shows Krytan soldiers in Regent Valley, but their placement there is less than confirmed in canon (I tried to get it confirmed though and all I got from John Stumme was, paraphrased, one of the main favorite parts was able to show what the game's named after, so it's not too hard to believe the battle actually took place).

What is known about the Guild Wars was that the Orrian government was fairly late in joining, and on the day of the Searing, the Ascalon guild "Ascalon's Chosen" were out in lands unknown fighting an Orrian guild (I hear Ascalon's Chosen are out fighting another Orrian guild today. - http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ascalon_Guard ). Should also be noted that the governments all reacted because the guilds independently started their battles. Generally, I think that the nations themselves were still allied with the other nations - except Ascalon and Kryta, clearly - and it was mainly the guilds, separate from the government, who fought (though Ascalon's Chosen and Adelbern is an exception to this).

It's also known that Fort Koga was a highly contested location during the Guild Wars (thinking on it, as I've always been curious why that far out place would be a trade route location, if Orr did blockage Krytan naval trade, that would explain it!).

As to Deldrimor - there was an alliance between Deldrimor and... either Ascalon or humans:

Quote:

Jalis Ironhammer: "The Good Dwarves of Deldrimor thank you for your help."
<Party leader>: "We do what we can to honor the old alliances."
Jalis Ironhammer: "Then the Deldrimor Dwarves will honor them as well. -snip-"

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Borli...8cinematics%29
But I have a feeling that Deldrimor generally just played neutral in the wars - similar to the norn letting the charr pass through the Shiverpeaks.

draxynnic · May 09, 2012, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Actually, I've had a theory for a while that the dwarves did get pretty upset about Ascalon and Kryta using the Shiverpeaks as a battleground... so upset, in fact, that it lead to the ascendancy of a dwarven faction based around the idea of not letting anyone except dwarves use the Shiverpeaks.

Maldeus · May 09, 2012, 01:00 AM // 01:00

The wiki article on the Guild War mentions that fighting between Ascalonian and Krytan guilds in the streets of Arah led the Orrian government to officially expel foreign guilds from the city (and possibly the rest of the country as well), at which point it escalated into a national conflict. We don't know how far into the Guild Wars this happened, but it was deep enough into it for Adelbern to cultivate a very thorough hatred of Kryta and not just specific guilds.

I'd assumed the dwarves had meant there was an alliance with Ascalon specifically. I hadn't considered the possibility that they just meant humans in general. Either way, I can't imagine it'd be easy for them to remain neutral without closing off the Shiverpeaks entirely. The norn never had humans and charr actually fighting in their territory, the charr just passed through, whereas Deldrimor is the only space between Ascalon and Kryta, and is thus practically guaranteed to be a battlefield eventually. Dwarves have cities and are unlikely to appreciate people fighting wars on their doorsteps. Although it may concern them less if they principally trade with subterranean nations using asuran portals, which is possible.

If Fort Koga was the western border of Kryta, it's most likely the ports on the western shores are (or were) Orrian. It's curious that we never see any evidence of a major road through Maguuma, though, given that we know trade was conducted through it. There's also little evidence of any traders in Maguuma Jungle as of 1072, nor is there any evidence of an Orrian government operating out of old ports. I'd guess that at some point Kryta very thoroughly razed the ports on the western shore to prevent the Orrians from using them as a staging point after the Canthans had officially cancelled trade and controlling ports was kind of moot anyway (actually, I'd guess ANet didn't think it through, since that's consistent with a lot of Prophecies lore, but that's obviously not very helpful).

draxynnic · May 10, 2012, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Or whoever held - or possibly still holds - those ports managed to stay out of the Guild Wars entirely (possibly through cutting off contact) and/or wasn't human to begin with.

Konig Des Todes · May 10, 2012, 06:48 AM // 06:48

I had actually thought that the druids acted as guides through the Maguuma, and Fort Koga was a major stopping point for folks. And it should be remembered that druids were Krytans until their time in the Maguuma. This would have ended when they disappeared, though - which ranges between 972 and 1062 AE.

Though considering Fort Koga originates from alpha lore, it is very likely they hadn't considered things like where they trade to and why (iirc, originally the idea was to have Fort Koga contested by guilds, but was scrapped in favor of an arena outpost which was eventually closed - the lore of it remained until closing, and I think we can still see it in game in a PvP area).

Maldeus · May 10, 2012, 10:39 PM // 22:39

I get the feeling Guild Wars was originally supposed to actually be about the Guild Wars, and ANet changed it at some point during the alpha when they decided to do the charr/White Mantle plot instead for whatever reason. Regardless, who might be on the west coast of Maguuma, then? The centaurs don't seem to type to make ports.

Maldeus · May 17, 2012, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Apologies for the double post, but I've decided to stop being coy about things and throw up an actual thread concerning the project this thread was made for, if anyone's curious as to what it was.